And when we're able to really take time and dig deeper, what often comes out is that is when I feel most loved and connected. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the show. Today's episode is a juicy one, and let me say this right up front. It's not really appropriate to have little ears listening right now, so I'm gonna give you a minute to pause this and come back to it when you don't have little ears in the back seat, if that's your case.
Are you ready? So today, we're talking all things sex and intimacy in long term relationships, And it's a conversation that is honest, eye opening, and let's be real, it's so needed. And I'm so excited to share with you the incredible doctor Jordan Rulo. Doctor Jordan Rulo is a board certified clinical health psychologist and certified sex therapist who specializes in couples work, desire differences, sexual dysfunction, and helping couples feel more connected and fulfilled in their intimate lives. She's also a certified Gottman therapist and teaches nationally on sexual health.
Basically, she knows her stuff and brings the science and what to do about these things to this episode, and I promise you you will not want to miss it. Now we are talking about what to do when you and your partner are on different pages sexually. We're talking about how to recognize what might be putting on the brakes with your desire or your connection, and we're also talking about what couples can do to improve intimacy, not just physically, but emotionally too. This one is a really great episode to listen to with your partner. If you're up for a thoughtful conversation and maybe even a fresh start in the intimacy department, grab your partner or share it with them, and let's get started.
So sex is a skill. We're not born with that skill. Society, movies, media would say, you should just know. You should just know how to it should come natural. No.
It does not come naturally. It does not. It's a skill. And I think because of that expectation that it should just come naturally, there's a lot of shame around, sex and sexual health. Well, what's wrong with me?
Because this isn't coming naturally. Jordan, thank you so much for coming on. I am so looking forward to this conversation, and I'm so happy to meet you and and to learn more from you today. So thanks for being here. We have talked about sex on this podcast before from some different angles.
You are a sex therapist and work a lot with individuals, but also with couples. And so so I am hoping this is gonna be a great episode for couples to listen to and share and maybe be a jumping off point to kind of initiate a conversation for them. Will you start by telling us just a little bit about how did this become your thing to be a sex therapist and to really get into helping individuals and couples with intimacy and sexuality. For me. This is not the thing.
And then I thought, well, why did I wanna do this in the first place? And really, it was, what makes people tick? What influences people? What would make someone decide to do to buy something over something else? And I thought, well, that's psychology.
And I switched my major the end of my sophomore year and, went into psychology, and then quickly learned that if you wanted to get an advanced degree in psychology, if you want to really be a psychologist, you've gotta go to graduate school. And how do you do that? Oh, you gotta do research. And so right around this time, I was figuring all this out. The Kinsey Institute, which was at where I was at for undergrad, Indiana University.
The Kinsey Institute is a major sex research and therapy institute and or mostly research. They were looking for a research assistant to just do a a simple study on sexual pain. And it was like just data entry. But I thought, what? I could get research experience on, like a sex study?
This is awesome. So I got that position and got to go to the Kinsey Institute every single day and was just floored that this was a thing and that you could start you have a career in this. And that really kicked it off to wanting to be a sex therapist and a sex researcher and then, like, the rest, it's that's that's the story. And here I am today. I love it, and I'm so glad that you do what you do because it's obviously something that we still don't talk enough about.
And Yeah. There's not enough people who who know that this is a thing. Will you tell us what a sex therapist is? Because there's there's sex coaches and there's, you know, various other things like that. Tell us what makes your practice unique?
Yeah. Okay. So so sex therapy, I think this is a really, really important question because there are a lot of people that yeah. Sex coaches or call themselves sex therapists. Let's talk about this.
Let's just talk about a therapist in general. A therapist is someone who has had specialized training to provide psychotherapy. And there are social workers, clinical mental health counselors. They all have varying years of experience. Highest years of experience is gonna be a psychologist.
And so they've done undergrad and then about five, six, even seven years past undergrad to get their therapy degree. So everyone who's a sex therapist should be a therapist in one of those ways. Social worker, clinical mental health counselor, licensed professional counselor, psychologist, they should all be a therapist. Then once you get your degree, whatever degree that is, you need to get specialized training in sexual health and sex therapy. We're all trained to be generalist therapists in school.
And then you find out what you're interested in and you seek that specialized training. The gold standard for specialized training for a for someone who calls themselves a sex a sex therapist is an organization called ASEC, to be ASEC certified. And ASEC stands for the American Association of Sex Educators, Counselors, and Therapists. And, it's a big process to become an a sex certified sex therapist. You have to have, about ninety hours of didactics of just learning about sexual health, sixty hours of learning how to actually implement sex therapy interventions, and fifty hours of actually having a supervisor who is supervising the work that you're doing.
And then you finish all that, and then boom, you're a certified sex therapist. So when I say so I'm a I'm a clinical health psychologist. I was trained as a psychologist. I have a subspecialty in health because it's really hard to be able to effectively treat sexual sexual concerns if you also don't understand the health concerns. Yeah.
So I'm a clinical health psychologist, but then I've done all the specialized training to also be a certified sex therapist. There are lots of therapists who, again, social workers, other types of licenses who've done that specialized training and are sex therapists. There are many therapists who just say they're sex therapists, but they have not done the specialized training. And that would be one of the things, if I was a consumer looking for a sex therapist, I would want to know, have you done the training? Are you certified?
Are you close to certification? Because lots of therapists just say, oh, yeah. Yeah. I do sex therapy. They're just passionate about it.
They're passionate about it, but they actually haven't had the training. There's a lot to learn to be a sex therapist. Yeah. This differs from like a sex coach. A sex coach is someone who's probably gonna go to your house and bring a lot of different sex toys and show you things that you can use.
They're gonna be more I was gonna say more hands on, but a sex coach should not a sex therapist should not touch you. A sex coach should not touch you. That's a whole different category of, like, sex worker or sex surrogate, which we could have that discussion too. But a sex therapist is just is a therapist who happens to have a specialty in sexual health. They will not touch you.
It's all talk therapy. Yeah. So tell us a little bit more then about what is this field about? Because sex has been around since humans were have been around. Right?
And before that, because it was in whatever creatures and animals and and and, you know, mammals or whatever were around, there's always been some sexual connection that created, you know, reproduction. Right? So why does this become so complicated then? What what are you know, why is this a thing? Like, why do you need to be a sex therapist if if it's the quote unquote the most natural thing there is.
Right? I would argue that that and that is I would argue that that's a myth. Yes. That sex is the most natural thing there is. What I teach my clients, sex is a skill.
Yeah. It's a skill that you need to learn. I see so many people who had never learned how to self stimulate. Like, how do you learn how to self stimulate? Who teaches you that?
Maybe you're just kind of naturally stumble across it, but a lot of people don't. And then if you're gonna add another person into the equation, how do two people figure out how to experience sexual satisfaction and, meet each other sexual like, it takes a lot of communication, and it takes skill. So sex is a skill. We're not born with that skill. Society, movies, media would say, you should just know.
You should just know how to it should come natural. No. It does not come naturally. It does not. It's a skill.
And I think because of that expectation that it should just come naturally, there's a lot of shame Yeah. Around, sex and sexual health. Well, what's wrong with me? Because this isn't coming naturally. Yeah.
I think too, a lot of the advice that's just given is, like, well, you gotta try and see. You've gotta experiment. But a lot of people, if you say that, they're like, Experiment with what? Do what? Right.
Right. Mhmm. So tell us from a a we'll start with a couple standpoint. I really want this to be useful to people. So I have said this in the disclaimer before, but, like, we are gonna get into the nitty gritty here because I don't just wanna talk around it.
I actually want it to be helpful for people. What is unique about coming at this from a couple's therapy perspective as opposed to working with an individual about sexuality? Yes. I mean, the simplest answer, and I'll get into more nitty gritty, but the simplest answer is you now have two people. Yeah.
You have two people that need to figure out how do they communicate about this, how do they talk about what each of their needs are, how are they vulnerable enough to say what they're interested in, how are you vulnerable enough to open yourself up and your body and be open to a partner. I mean, once you add a second person, everything gets more complicated. Most common issue I see, and this is typically with heterosexual couples, but I don't just see heterosexual couples, but I'm gonna focus on hetero couples right now. Most common issue I see with heterosexual couples is a mismatch in sexual desire, a desire discrepancy, where one partner has higher desire than the other. And, in couples therapy, what we call this and the type of couples therapy I do, I'm a Gottman certified couples therapist.
So these are a lot of if you if you know what Gottman is, these are a lot of Gottman terms. Gottman has identified in his research with couples. He's a famous couples researcher. He's followed couples for decades. And what he's found is that and I will I'll tie this back to sexual desire, but I'm gonna move away from desire for a moment.
He's found that sixty nine percent of the problems that couples have are what are called perpetual problems or unsolvable problems because these problems are based on personality differences. So let me give you an example. Perpetual and unsolvable problem could be, one person is always on time and one person is always late. That is probably never going to change. One person is really tidy and one person is really cluttery.
That is probably never going to change. These are personality differences. These are not going to be a quick fix or really ever a fix to these. But what you can do is you can learn to actively cope with these issues. Because even though 69% of problems within every couple are unsolvable, there are still a lot of happy couples out there.
Desire discrepancy is one of those unsolvable problems. It is probably because well, it could be for a variety of reasons, but oftentimes one person just has higher desire than the other, just kind of naturally. And you're not gonna make the person with lower desire match you. The higher desired person can suppress as much as they can, but it's not naturally gonna change. This is just one of those unsolvable problems, but you can learn to actively cope with it.
And when you've got two people in the room with this desire discrepancy, it's a couple's issue. Oftentimes, what happens when I see couples, with a desire discrepancy, they kind of identify the lower desire partner as it's their problem. Yeah. They need to fix it. Oh, wait.
Why do we need to be couples? Shouldn't the person with the lower desire be the why don't you just do individual work with them? I'm not the problem. Yeah. I'm not the problem.
No. No. No. If it's if this is a a difference in each of your levels of desire, this is a difference, manage this difference and actively cope with this difference. So I love that you're saying that because as a women's health doctor, obviously, I get women coming in saying my sex drive is low.
And very frequently when we get into it, I say, well, why do you think your sex drive is low? Like, what does that mean? Right? And they'll say, well, well, my husband feels like it's low or my my partner feels like it's low or my partner feels like we should want to have sex more often. And this is probably one of the benefits of meeting as a couple is because, otherwise, if we are meeting as an individual, that that individual is trying to solve a couple's problem on their own, which there's there can be good ground gained there, but but really helping both parties to understand.
So keep going with what you're where where you're going with that. Yeah. So you're you're spot on. This is a couple's issue. Both parties need to be involved in it.
And it can be I mean, I can go into the nitty gritty of what impacts desire discrepancy and how part both partners are important. We're in I'm I'm here for all of it. Bring it. Okay. Bring it.
One of the biggest things, and one of the most common things that I see in my practice is it simply and if this you know, this doesn't have to be heterosexual couples. This could be a same sex couple. I just see this often more in heterosexual couples. But if both partners have a different if their main type of desire is a different type of desire, and let me explain this. There are two different types of desire, but we only typically ever learn about one of them.
And the one we learn about, often in the movies and media, and maybe if we were lucky enough to have some sort of sex education, is spontaneous desire. And that is that type of desire where you have that that internal drive, that internal craving, and you just spontaneously are like, oh, I really wanna have sex right now. And again, this is the one we see in the movies. And the movies just of like someone walks through the door and then there's that lust and they're pushed against the wall and just spontaneous sexual drive. Yeah.
So that's the first one. And this is more common with people with who have more testosterone. So this is more common in men or just individuals who have more testosterone. It's not entirely driven by testosterone, but it's more common in men that that's their main desire. Now the other desire, which is equally important, but we certainly don't see it in movies and media, and I I don't know if I've ever heard of a sex education program talking about this type of desire, is called responsive desire.
And responsive desire looks like this. You are sexually neutral. Sex is not on your mind. You're not thinking about it. But the ingredients are in place for you to go, And so maybe those ingredients are, you've had you've had good sleep that night.
You've got good energy. There's privacy in the house. You're feeling emotionally close to your partner. And then your partner initiates and you're like, oh, well, I wasn't yeah. Sex wasn't on my mind.
I wasn't thinking about it, but, I could be open to it. And then once the sexual activity gets started and the body starts to feel aroused, then the mind goes, oh, yeah. I'm glad we're doing this. Yeah. It's kinda nice.
Why don't we do this more often? That's responsive desire. Both spontaneous and responsive are equally important, and one is not better than the other. One is not superior than the other. But society certain wouldn't certainly wouldn't tell you that.
Society would tell you that the spontaneous desire, the one that's more predominantly shown in men, that that's the one you're striving for. And so if you don't have that one, there must be something wrong with you or something's broken or something needs to be fixed. Oftentimes, I have couples, in my office, and what they're describing is that one person is predominantly spontaneous and one person is predominantly responsive, but they're both expecting that they both should be responsive. And so the problem is not really a mismatch in the frequency of sex that they're interested in. How they both approach and respond to desire.
And having that conversation and understanding no one's broken, this is simply a difference, and then working through that, like, that's how you navigate it. Mhmm. That's so great because so many women come to me and say, my sex drive is low. Can you can you fix it? Right?
Thinking it's a hormonal thing or that it's a a medication based or hormone replacement therapy or something like that. And I do see some people who will say, what you're describing as spontaneous sex drive, that I used to have more spontaneous sex drive and now I don't. And what you're saying makes sense because testosterone goes down as we age anyway, so so that makes sense that it could change. And therefore, maybe if we add testosterone in appropriate situations, that might come back. But for women who say, I have just as many patients who say, I've never really had a sex drive, but they come in at menopause because everyone's talking about it now and and then they're disappointed if the testosterone doesn't work.
But if that's not their thing, then that that might not be their thing. Exactly. And I also think some some couples you can speak to this briefly or or or not briefly if you want. I do think sometimes it is the female partner who has the higher desire, and that can be really unsettling for women because we're told men have higher sex drives, and it can make you feel like, gosh. There must be really something wrong with me if my husband doesn't wanna have sex with me spontaneously.
Will you talk about that? Because I do think it comes up and it's pretty unsettling. Yes. I see both sides. Mhmm.
Both sides being sometimes the in a heterosexual relationship, the woman has higher desire and then she thinks, yeah, what's wrong with me? Why do I have high desire? Even more so, why does he have lower desire? He's not supposed to have lower desire. He's supposed to be all over me.
What is what is wrong with me? Am I not enough? Is he not attracted to me? So I see that. But I also see the flip side where when the, the heterosexual couple, when the man has lower desire, he is beating himself up thinking, what is wrong with me?
I'm supposed to be the one that's initiating sex. I'm supposed to be the one that has all the spontaneous drive. What's wrong with me that I don't? I just think it highlights this, really damaging have spontaneous desire, our levels of desires are supposed to match. If if you don't have desire that's as equal to your partner or somewhere near your partner, that must mean there's something wrong in the relationship or you don't find them attractive.
It perpetuates a really damaging narrative. It's just not accurate. So how do you help couples differentiate when there may be a physical issue that needs to be addressed with their doctor versus, hey, we just need to figure out what works for you as a couple? Great. That's a great question.
I think I mentioned before I'm a clinical health psychologist, and and not all sex therapists have this, additional degree in health. But there's a huge there's a huge health component, and the way that I approach my assessments. And every every time I take on a new couple, they get a four part assessment. And a huge part of that four sessions of assessment are trying to figure out what are the what are the ideological or underlying causes of this, sexual desire discrepancy or just sexual health functioning issue, whatever it might be. So we do a really thorough what's called a biopsychosocial assessment.
And are you, physician already know what these are, but I'll explain it to everyone. Biopsychosocial assessment sounds super fancy. Basically, it's what are the biological factors that are impacting the sexual issue? What are the psychological factors? What are the interpersonal relational factors?
And then, what are the sociocultural factors? And in this assessment, I'm going through all of these four areas to really identify are there medical conditions, are there medications, physical health issues, injury, fatigue. What are the physical factors? Is, psychological, anxiety, depression, stress, trauma, relational? Do you like your partner?
Oftentimes, couples come in because they are not having sex and I find out, oh, you don't actually like your partner. That's probably why you're not having sex. Yep. And then social cultural, and I think that's really big, here in Utah. There are a lot of messages that are, a lot of negative messages around sex and those social cultural messages can really impede or kind of hit the brakes.
So every single new couple that I work with, for anyone who's gonna see a sex therapist, good sex therapy is gonna start with a thorough assessment that looks at all four of these areas to really identify what we say in the sex therapy world is what's hitting your brakes. So what's hitting the brakes, what's reducing your sexual desire, arousal, orgasm, whatever it is we're talking about, what's hitting the gas. But even more importantly from the beginning, what is hitting the brakes? Mhmm. I'm often asked exactly what items I use and recommend, so I have a little gift for you.
I have gathered my go tos in one spot on our Amazon storefront. If you need deeper sleep, you'll find the light blocking sleep mask that lives on my nightstand and that I use every night. If you're working on your bone density or your posture, check out the weighted vest I recommend for walks and workouts. We've also added the magnesium body lotion I reach for to calm the nervous system, my favorite laundry soap and cleaning products, and even the cast iron skillet that's currently sitting on my stovetop. All of these and more are organized by categories so you can browse trusted products without the overwhelm of trying to figure out what's the best thing to buy.
You can head to amazon.com backslash shop backslash uplift for her or tap the link in the show notes or from our website to explore the items I personally use and love. I hope this makes your life just a little bit easier. Now back to the show. I have two questions, and you can order answer either or both or whichever order. I think part of the question is, what do we do then if there's that that discrepancy, in sexual desire?
But, also, what should we want here? Like, what what I know I've had this conversation with lots of patients and I I with other professionals of this idea of everything is normal. Right? There there is no abnormal because everything is normal. And, honestly, that's kind of an annoying answer.
Right? Because that doesn't actually bring peace to very many people, like, to say, I'm dissatisfied with my situation and to have someone say, well, it's normal, so you should be satisfied. Like, how do we know even what we're trying to to get to as a couple? And then also, what do we do about that that discrepancy? Okay.
So let's talk about what do you do, and then we'll talk about what is normal and that that whole concept. So what do you do? It starts with that assessment. So you'd meet with a sex therapist, meet with a psychologist, they do a thorough assessment, and it's a couple's assessment. So what I'm really looking at is what is hitting your brake pedal, what's hitting your partner's brake pedal.
And when I say brake pedal, where I would go with this? There's, all these these this does not sound fun, but there's a model called the dual control model. And the dual control model is based on this idea that for everyone's sexual function, it is comprised of a brake pedal and a gas pedal. What they call it in the research is inhibition and excitation, but we'll just call it brake and gas. And in order for your sexual function to function, meaning in order for you to have desire or arousal orgasm, you need to have more on your gas than on your brake.
And this intuitively just makes sense because if you think about this as a car, and this is your brake and your gas on a car, if you have your car if you have your foot on the brake and the brake is pushed all the way to the ground, it'll stop. Like, I don't gotta go anywhere. So if you put your foot down on the gas, it might rev a little bit, but it's still not gonna go anywhere. So if you think about this brake pedal, gas pedal being on a car, if the brake is pushed all the way to the ground, the gas is irrelevant, and we just have to focus what's on the brake and remove as much as possible off the brake. So oftentimes, when I work with couples and we're starting to really dig into what are all these factors hitting the brakes, they tell they they go right into, well, let me tell you what I put on the gas.
Yeah. And lingerie and date nights and candles. And although that it that can be helpful in the future, initially, that is not helpful because if your foot is jammed on that brake, anything on the gas is irrelevant. The car is not gonna move. Engine might rev.
Not gonna go anywhere. First step is to figure out all the different things on the brake pedal, and then figure out, of all those things on the brake pedal, which have the greatest weight, and can we somehow remove or modify any of those things that have a ton of weight off the brake pedal. That's the start of the treatment plan. Let's remove as many things as possible off that brake pedal. And some of those brake pedal things could be very individual.
It might be maybe how you feel about your body and body image. And so maybe we're talking about, starting to get into an exercise routine and doing things where you're starting to have more gratitude or neutrality, not not negativity towards your body. It could be individual factors. And in couples therapy, there are a lot of couples factors. I'll give you one example.
There might be a communication issue. Maybe you really feel like every time you're sexual, your partner pressures you to reach orgasm, and so you're like, ugh, it's too much work. And orgasm is not how I define satisfaction. So this just feels like too much work. I don't wanna do it.
But it's been too uncomfortable to talk about that with your partner. Okay. Then the biggest thing that break is we're gonna start facilitating these conversations in a productive way. So there'll be lots of different couples or individual factors on the breaks. But so the to answer your question, if there is a desire discrepancy, what do you do?
We start looking at all the things that are hitting the brakes for both parties, and then remove as many of those things as possible. That's, like, the simplest way to say, here's what you do with not only a desire discrepancy, but any sexual health issue. So we'll set that aside for a moment. Let's go back to your other question of, like, what are you striving for? What's normal?
And I give the same answer, but I can go a little bit deeper. Because I often have couples say, well, how many times should we be having sex? And that is often what couples strive for. They look at frequency. Mhmm.
How frequently should we having sex? As if frequency is the the the determination of like a good sexual relationship, which you could be having lots of really bad sex and not be happy in your sexual relationship. So frequency does not cut it to say whether this is a good sexual relationship. So what I will say to couples is normal frequency. I mean, I'll tell you what the research shows.
What the research shows, this this has predominantly been done in heterosexual couples. Long term heterosexual couples about sec once a week. Sex once a week brings a level of sexual satisfaction and happiness. Anything beyond that doesn't really kind of add to happiness. So if you if you genuinely want to strive for a number, which is where I would push you toward as a couple's therapist, you could strive for once a week.
However, it really is up to you and your partner. Sometimes I see couples and they come in and their goal is to have a better sexual relationship. We do the assessment, we have some sessions, and then we come to find out they're both actually fine only having sex maybe a handful of times a year. Like, they're both actually fine with that. But society tells them that's not okay.
And then the discussion is, if you're both fine with this, if this works for both of you, embrace it. It doesn't matter what society says. So my question for a couple is, what would feel good to both of you? What feels not what society says. What feels good for both of you?
Not what you feel like you should do, not what society tells you to do, or what you think is right or normal. Just what feels good to both of you, and then we'll start there and figure out how we can compromise or navigate and make this work for both of you. Well, I like that answer better. That at least makes more sense. I think people do kind of want some sort of ballpark, and it's almost easier to dismiss a ballpark once you kind of know where it's at and then say, oh, well, I don't want that.
Like, I'm fine if it's not that. So I do think it's helpful to to hear any sort of norm, but I also completely understand and agree, like, it's all arbitrary. Right? Like, who what does that mean? So I'm gonna ping pong for a second.
I wanna go back to the brake pedals for a second. What are some examples of the most common brake pedals you see in men and, women or or both partners? Yeah. Well, let's just go through that biopsychosocial model. Absolutely.
In the biological component, one of the big things is I'm looking at is antidepressants. Oftentimes, I work with couples and they'll say, oh, my desire changed or my sexual function changed. Again, that could be orgasm or arousal or an onset of pain. And I always wanna know as soon as they tell me something was something changed. It used to be this way, and now my desire is this way.
Or I used to have orgasm, and now I don't. When did it change? And, oftentimes, when we can pinpoint when it changed and what was going on around that time, it's common for someone to say, oh, I got on a medication, or I increased my dosage of the antidepressant that I'm on. So I'm always looking for changes in medication. And do those medications have any known sexual side effects?
Then medical issues, chronic pain. Chronic pain is a massive distraction to being sexual. If all you're feeling day in and day out is pain, it is very hard to then pause that pain and focus on pleasure. So chronic pain, any injuries, illnesses. So those those are the common things that I see in that biological category.
Oh, let's talk if we're talking women's health. Menopause, perimenopause. I've seen a lot of women who just were were not aware of these hormonal changes and they've entered menopause and they they're saying, sex has now become painful and I don't know why it was never painful before. I'm like, oh, you're 51 years old. Genital urinary syndrome menopause.
Let's talk about this. So those are the biological factors that are most common. Psychological factors, biggest things I'm looking at, anxiety. So here's what happens with anxiety. Imagine that you're a cave person and you just woke up from your cave, and you happen to be aroused, you wake up and you're aroused, and then all of a sudden you see a rustle in the bushes right outside your cave, and then a lion comes out.
In that moment, are you gonna tell mister lion, hey, you know what? I'm aroused right now. I'm gonna go self stimulate. Like, I'll be back with you in a moment. Like, no.
And why are you not gonna do that? Because it won't help. If yeah. And the lion's probably gonna attack you. The lion will teach you.
Yeah. So when you see that wrestle in the bushes, your body goes into fight or flight and says, woah. I have got to fight this lion or I have got to run. And physiologically, what happens is all the blood flow that was in your genitals when you were aroused, because that's what arousal is, blood flow to the genitals. All that blood flow leaves the genitals and it goes to the extremities because you have got to fight the scion or you have got to run.
Mhmm. Now, in modern day life, it is not a lion behind the bushes. It is a worry that you're gonna lose your erection. It is hearing the kids in the other room. It is, remembering that there's this massive deadline tomorrow morning.
Those are the lions. And when you've got that lion in your mind, blood is not rushing to your genitals in that moment. You are ready to fight or flight. You've got to deal with this threat. You are hyper aware of threat.
And anxiety, therefore, really shuts down sexual functions, shuts down sexual desire. So I'm always looking for anxiety. I assess for anxiety. Then depression, that's another biggie. Hallmark features of depression.
You don't have much pleasure or joy in the things that maybe you used to enjoy. You don't have much motivation. You don't feel too good about yourself. Like, why would you wanna be sexual if you're depressed? And then the other big one that I'm looking for, and there are many others beyond this, but these are the the biggest ones.
A history of trauma. If you've had a history of trauma with your body, but especially sexual trauma, but really any physical trauma, and it is being triggered in your current sexual relationship, then of course, you are not gonna want to be sexual because that is not, that's not a good experience if it's being triggered. So has that trauma been processed? Those are the three biggies that I'm looking for when it comes to the psychological issues that hit the brakes. Then we got relational issues.
I mentioned this before. If you don't like your partner, you probably don't want to have sex with them. But there are other relational issues. Do you feel like, you can communicate with your partner? Do you feel like your partner hears you?
You mentioned before the importance for many women of emotional connection. Do you truly feel emotionally connected with your partner? Such a common kind of mantra that I hear, I'm sure you hear this too, is, look, I don't wanna I cannot be sexual unless I feel emotionally connected. If I feel emotionally connected, then I can be sexual. So a question I have is, do you feel emotional connection with your partner?
So I'm looking at communication, emotional connection, and this is also relational. The sex that you're having, is it enjoyable? Mhmm. Is it not enjoyable? The right buttons aren't being pushed?
Like, what would be the motivation to want to do it? Right. And then the social cultural flack factors. I'm curious about what sex education did you receive, negative messages that you received about sexual health, what does your spirituality religion say about sexual health, what societal messages or myths do you believe in? So those are all the things I'm looking at social cultural wise.
Those are the most common things, although there are so many more, but those are the most common. Okay. So that's super helpful. So going back or maybe adding on that then, one of the things that you mentioned was, like, the emotional connection. Right?
And what is the connection between intimacy and sexuality? Because they're not the same thing, but they kind of have a lot of overlap. But for for a lot of people, that idea of intimacy is actually what they're seeking for. Right? But they think that it's manifest in frequency of sex.
And so how do you how do you talk about intimacy, and and what can couples do to grow intimacy? I think a lot of times we think if we have more intimacy, certainly, that leap from intimacy into sexuality is is much easier for most people, I would assume. But what can we do to build that intimacy either before or around sexuality? Yeah. Okay.
So a few things. I wanna jump in with this one. And I'll go a little bit more to couples therapy because this relates to the question. What, we know and this is again from Gottman's research, the couple type of couples therapy that I do. Is it a prerequisite, essential ingredients that are needed to have a satisfying sexual relationship are friendship, respect, and trust.
You've got to have friendship, respect, and trust in your relationship to even develop a strong sexual relationship. And oftentimes, I have couples that come in, because I only see couples, and I only see couples for whom sexual health is a primary concern. And so couples will come in and say, Yeah, yeah, we want to work on sex. Proposing a treatment plan after the assessment. And the treatment plan is we're gonna work on communication.
We're gonna work on emotional connection. We're gonna work on spending more time together. And, often the higher desire partner, if that's the issue, says, Wait, wait, wait, wait. I came to you for sex therapy. What is all this stuff?
Yeah. And then there's a big discussion about you've got friendship, trust, and respect have to be there. And that's not just for the female. That's for both partners. Both partners.
Mhmm. And and if this is a heterosexual partner, oftentimes, the man, if he has higher desire, will say, like, I don't need those things. I can have like, I don't know. It's tough. I can have sex.
And if we really dig deeper and take more time to understand why sex is so important, then I'll often ask this question, like, why? Why is sex so important to you? This is really bothersome when there's a dry spell in your sexual relationship or sex hasn't happened for a week or a couple weeks. Why? And when we're able to really take time and dig deeper, what often comes out, it's not a 100% of the time, and I'll talk about the exception, but what often comes out is that is when I feel most loved and connected.
And I do think that society has really, created a disservice to men in general. Men are taught to be stoic and you don't get to express your feelings. You're not supposed to cry. You can't have sex though. And so oftentimes, I think men are taught that sex is is like a a fine way to experience and receive love.
What I what I talk about is diversify your portfolio. Right now, you know this is one way to feel loved, but are there other things in your portfolio that might help you feel loved and connected? And that's oftentimes a mind blowing concept for men. And I don't think it's so this is, yes, this isn't Friendship, trust, and respect is not just for women, it's also for men, but it often takes a lot of time to dig through and help them see and understand and gain insight to, oh, oh, sex is so important to me because it is the way I feel most loved and connected. And I guess there are other ways to feel loved and connected and it doesn't have to all be on sex.
The exception is there are, I mean, there are lots of different reasons people have sex and engage in sex. Sometimes it's like, I just know that if we have sex or if I self stimulate, I'll be able to fall asleep really easily. Or, I'm stressed out. And when I'm stressed, sex really helps me relieve that stress. So you really gotta ask yourself, are is this the reason why you're pursuing sex?
Is it truly to connect with your partner? And Gottman calls this personal sex. It is for connection. Or is this what Gottman calls impersonal sex? You don't really wanna have sex to connect.
You just really wanna go to bed. And you know that if you have an orgasm, it'll help you fall asleep. Or you're just stressed out. You just wanna relieve some stress. And so really asking yourself, is this personal sex or is this impersonal sex?
And both are fine. But couples often get into kind of a snafu where they are trying they really would just want impersonal sex. They really just want that release. But they think, well, I I can't do it alone. I have to involve my partner.
And then the partner's like, I don't I feel, like, a little bit used here. Like, you're not really trying to connect with me. Because, because, actually, they're not really trying to connect with you. They want sex for a different reason. So really being clear and identifying there are different reasons people approach sex, with their partner, or maybe solo sex makes more sense in some situations.
As you hopefully know, I am intensely passionate about sharing all things health and wellness with you. And one of the big parts of our health and wellness is our sex life. And so I wanna share with you one of my favorite products to support a healthy sex life, and that is Kokanoo Sexual Lubricant. This is a company that we love for creating personal lubricants that are not only effective and enjoyable, you don't have to worry about ingredients that are going to be harmful to your skin. Their products are made with clean organic ingredients that you can feel confident using without any harsh chemicals and weird additives.
Whether you're looking at their oil based lubricant for increased sensation or their water based formula for mess free intimacy, Kokanoo has a product that supports connection and pelvic health. We are big fans of the brand and the mission behind it, and we've got a discount for you. You can use code uplift for her at checkout for 15% off your order at kokanoo.com. Now back to the show. This is just it's so fascinating, and I think you can see how complex it gets and why it's so difficult to get a quick answer.
You know, when someone goes to their doctor and they're like, I'm struggling with sex, and they're like, have you tried Viagra? Have you tried testosterone? Have you tried Vyleesi? You know, like, woah. We we have a lot more to cover here.
So so my mind is just spinning here. I guess one of the questions I have building off of that is, is there a bad reason to have sex, and how do you help couples then navigate that of, like, well, he just wants to have sex or or she just wants to have sex to release whatever versus I want to have an intimate connection with you? Do you encourage people to still come together, or do you say, like, let's separate that? If it if that's not what you're looking for, then go do you. You know?
Go go take care of it on your own. Because that, I think, is really scary to people. Right? I think that can be scary to a partner to say, like, well, why do you want to do that? Why why don't you want to have sex to to be intimate with me?
Right? Like, I think that that stereotypical, like, we are having sex to come together. That we can wrap our minds around. Right? But these other reasons to have sex, I think, can leave the partner perhaps feeling a little nervous or a little rejected or or something.
So how do you help them understand that is Yeah. Sort of the root of that. We will have a discussion about how there are just so many different reasons to have sex. Connection is just one of them. There was a an article that came out, I think it was maybe, like, 02/2008, but it was with college students.
So take that with a grain of salt. A couple of sex researchers asked college students, will you just list all the different reasons why you have sex? And college students, men and women, came up with over 200 different reasons as to why they have sex. And so this is a discussion I would have with the couple I'm working with. There are hundreds of different reasons why people have sex.
The important part is that you communicate and you're clear around the reason why you're initiating sex. I could work with a couple and they could say maybe one partner says, well, I know you only want sex because you want that release because you're trying to release stress or you just wanna help go to sleep. And, like, I'm okay having sex if that's your reasoning as long as I know that that's the reasoning. Like, there are couples that could be totally fine with that. I could also see couples where one partner would say, no.
No. No. If you're just having sex and not to connect with me, but for your own personal reasons, I'm not down for that. So it's just about having an open discussion about what are our different motivations, what motivations are we okay with and not so okay with when we have our couple's sexual experiences. There's a a concept that relates to this.
It's called synchronous and asynchronous sex that I think is really important for all couples to know. This is called the good enough sex model. What you are striving for in a long term sexual relationship, doesn't matter sexual orientation, in a long term sexual relationship is good enough sex. And good enough sex looks like this. If you think about this as a normal curve, the the majority of the sex in this in all of your sexual experiences are gonna fall under this good enough sex category.
And then about 10% are gonna be like Hollywood sex. Like, oh, that was amazing. And about 10% is either gonna be like, that was not very good, or I don't even remember we had sex that day. So you're shooting for good enough sex. Now if you take good enough sex and you split it into two categories, in a long term relationship, about half of that sex is gonna be synchronous and about half of that sex is gonna be asynchronous.
Synchronous sex is when both partners say, yeah, we really want this. We're we're both totally into this. We're equally into this. We're really excited about the sexual experience. We're both into this.
Asynchronous sex is when one partner is really into it and the other is open to it, not against it in any way, but not, like, not not to do it. Mhmm. But this is not asynchronous sex is not, my obligation. I guess I have to do this. Uh-uh.
You're responsive. We talked about responsive desire earlier. You're responsive to being sexual. You're open to it. You're just, like, not as into it as your partner, but you see how excited they are.
And you're like, I mean, you're open to it. So, like, okay. Cool. I'll have some asynchronous sex with you. So good enough sex is what you're striving for.
You're not striving for Hollywood sex. I see lots of couples where they want it to look like Hollywood sex. 10% of the time it will, and that will be awesome when that happens, but that is not realistic all the time. So you're striving for this good enough sex, and half of it's gonna be synchronous, and half of it's gonna be asynchronous. And that can be really just hearing that can be super normalizing of, oh, I don't have to be a 100% into it every time we have sex.
As long as I'm, like, open and willing and down for it, even though I'm not totally into it, that's okay. If both partners can discuss that and be okay with that, that's a great way to navigate just different types of desires and interests. And that would be part of the discussion of what's our motivation. What's our motivation to be sexual? I have a lot of couples that will actually use those terms, and one will initiate, and the other will say, I mean, I'm down for asynchronous sex, if you're open to that.
And just having that open discussion is like, oh, okay. Cool. You don't have some asynchronous sex. So just communicating, communicating, communicating. I wanna go back to your question of if there is ever bad sex.
Bad is such a hard term. What I'll say is there's healthy sex and unhealthy sex. And, there is in the sex therapy world, a lot of people probably heard the term sex addiction. Lots of controversy over it. Studies that have looked at is this truly an addiction the same way we look at alcohol and drugs.
Really, there's no good research to say that it is truly an addiction, like we look, like alcohol and drugs. That doesn't mean that the research couldn't happen. So, so far, we just don't know. In the meantime, while we don't know, there's another model called the Out of Control Sexual Behavior Model, OCSB, Out of Control Sexual Behavior. And this model essentially says, if you feel like your, sexual desires, interests, experiences are out of control, if you feel like they're out of control, then we got a problem.
If you feel like they're out of control, we have a problem. Maybe they're out of control because it's an addiction. We don't have the research to support that yet. This immediate research won't come. Maybe it's out of control for another reason.
But if you feel like it's out of control, who knows what the reason is, but we gotta help you. And in that model, the proposal and it's just a model. But the proposal is there's kind of three reasons why, someone's sexual interests, desires, behaviors could be out of control. One is they just have difficulty regulating their emotions. When they're depressed, when they're stressed out, where do they go?
They go to sex to try to regulate their emotions. So it could be because of emotional dysregulation. It could be because of an attachment issue. Perhaps you are kind of truly terrified of getting close to your partner, so you find yourself, like, wanting to cheat or thinking about cheating or going that route because connection with your partner is terrifying. Or it could be, like an erotic interest discrepancy.
Maybe you're in a heterosexual relationship, but you actually are attracted to people of the same sex, but that's not who you're with. And so you find yourself seeking out erotica or experiences of people of the same sex because it just doesn't you can't you're not getting in your relationship. So those are three possible reasons why someone's sexual behavior might feel out of control. If it's out of control, you're doing risky things. You may be doing risky things, engaging in sexual activities, like, in public or at work.
Or maybe you're breaking your relationship agreement. You have a relationship relationship agreement to be monogamous, but you're not. In that case, I would I wouldn't call it bad or good, but I would say these are probably unhealthy sexual behaviors and absolutely seeing a sex therapist could help you navigate that and figure out what is underneath this feeling of out of control or you crossing over your own sexual values. Like, what's underneath that? I would assume in that case because I have patients who, you know, I I have patients that all everything comes up.
And there are some patients who have come up with partners who have viewed pornography in public next to them or, you know, situations that I think are alarming to a lot of people of, like, what do I do here? And a sex therapist can help either partner. I mean, ideally, a couple in that case. But if it's a partner that is not the one engaging in the behavior but is kinda freaked out by it or doesn't know what to do, that's still something that you can you can address with the partner even if they're not the ones engaging. Absolutely.
Because this now has become a partner's issue. If your partner is next to you in a public place watching a pornography or erotica on their phone, this has now involved you. This is a partner's issue. Let's talk about it. Thank you so much.
This is so great. Tell us a little bit more because I know this is what people are kind of, like, waiting. Like, are they gonna come back to the gas pedal? So come back to the gas pedal. I love that you set us up the way that you did because I do think it's important.
We do naturally go to the gas pedal. If I tried the candles and I tried the laundry and all of that, and and I do think that's so much more complex than that, especially from a medical standpoint of, like, it must be a testosterone issue. Right? Like, it's a testosterone issue. Like It might be nice to hear it.
Yeah. Yeah. It'd be much easier to fix. Yep. But so so we have to look at breaks, and we have to look at the biopsychosocial model.
We have to look at the relationship, all of that, and I love that. But when we get to that point, there are, like, we'd mentioned in the beginning, some people who are like, okay. So I think we might be okay, but maybe we would do better if we could try some new things. But, like, where on earth do I start with that? Yes.
Take us there, and then I have one more follow-up question there there as well. Okay. Gas pedal. Yes. You've you've set up.
You realize here are the things hitting the brakes. You removed as much as you can off the brakes, and now you're at a place where you're like, there aren't many brakes anymore, but I still am not, like I'm not just wanting to have sex. So well, yeah, what hits the gas? What are the top things that can and you know, when I say hit the gas, it is not like all of a sudden you're slamming your foot in that gas and we're not talking spontaneous. Right.
When you think responsive, which is where more of the brake pedal gas pedal comes in, I talk about responsive being a crock pot and you need to get the ingredients in there and you let them simmer throughout the day and things slowly get hot. Spontaneous is a microwave. You put the food in, beep, boop, beep, it's hot within thirty seconds. So we're more talking about simmering. And the simmering of the, gas ingredients, one of the things you wanna start with is context.
What context needs to be in place to help you get into the the, mindset of being able to be in your body and be present. That context for for most of the people that I work with is not an ounce of pressure, meaning no time pressure. Like we don't Okay, we got fifteen minutes, we gotta hurry up. Privacy, feeling some emotional connection before the physical experience happens with your partner. Getting into your body.
Oftentimes, a lot of the clients that I work with say, I just need my partner to massage me for ten, fifteen minutes before we can even start to get anything more sensual, sexual. So you really gotta think what context is going to hit anything more sensual, sexual. So you really gotta think what context is going to hit the gas for you or not even hit the gas, but what context is gonna simmer Mhmm. And start to get things a little bit hotter for you. So we'll start with context.
And then let's say the context is in place. Here are some other things that can maybe put a little bit more weight on that gas pedal. I often talk with my clients about, fantasy. So a lot of times when I'm working with clients and I'll say, okay. You know, there's two different types of sexual arousal.
There's your physiological arousal in your body, but there's also your mind arousal. And to assess mind arousal, the question I ask my clients is, when you're actually having sex, what are you thinking about? And if the answer I get is, oh, the to do list and what we've done, and that is not very good mind arousal. So there's a difficulty with mind arousal. We've gotta figure out what's gonna hit the gas to get that mind aroused, and there's a few different things.
Fantasy can hit the gas. Oftentimes, when I talk to couples, especially women, they're like, I fantasy? I have no idea. And what we'll talk about is, whether it's looking at erotica or, erotic literature or there's a really good app. It's called Dipsy, which is audio erotica, and you can search and you can say, I'm interested in spanking, and then it'll throw up all the stories that have spanking.
But you need to kind of create your library to start to figure out, like your internal library of, yeah, what can I fantasize about? Or can you think back to past sexual experiences that you thought were really arousing? And can you start to create either a narrative or a story or snippets in your mind? But that's how you can start to build that erotic library in your mind and into fantasy. Another way to hit the gas is is just simply erotica.
And I'm saying erotica very specifically, I'm not saying pornography. Really important distinction. Pornography is is like the stuff that you can often get for free online that has very few guardrails. You don't know if it's ethical, if the people are of age, if it's consensual. And then there's erotica, but specifically ethical erotica.
And ethical erotica is erotica that everyone is of age. You know, everyone's being paid fairly. You know that it's consensual. You know that it is a fair and safe working environment. Oftentimes, the producers of ethical erotica are women.
They're women producers, and they come from the female gaze, which is a lot different than watching pornography that's often coming from the male gaze. So I'll discuss with clients about ethical erotica. Give them lots of resources of where they can find ethical erotica, and that's a way to kind of simmer and get those ingredients started. Or reading erotic literature. And then the third one, whether you do this solo and then bring your partner in or it's with a partner, would be toys.
Bringing in toys or sexual accessories. Most common one is a vibrator. And either trying that with yourself first or bringing your partner in and trying it out together. Ideally, you two would go to a sex toy store together, and you pick one out together and make it a process that's a couple's teammate, process. But these are all possible ways to hit that gas pedal.
That's great. Now my follow-up question to that is for patients who come from a more conservative background or who are very shy, I get some patients sometimes who are like, I I don't even know how to talk about that. I'd I'm not comfortable being naked. I'm not comfortable like, I would not even know like, I'm not gonna Google anything. I'm not gonna do anything.
And or those who have now we can't go too far into the guilt and shame that comes with certain teachings that can be complicated. But give us an idea of kind of for those people of either partner who may feel like, okay. I I I buy in, but also, like, I don't know how to do it or how to feel comfortable with it. How do you address that? There's a couple places I would start.
One, one type of therapy I do is called cognitive behavioral therapy. Cognitive behavioral therapy is a type of, talk therapy where you're learning to identify your thoughts, take a step back, look at those thoughts and go, Are those accurate? Are those rational? And if they're not accurate and rational, then we get to spend time in therapy, reframing, kind of challenging those thoughts. And oftentimes, I'm working with individuals or couples where they have so many inaccurate thoughts around sexuality and sexual health.
And we just take time to reframe and challenge. And it's a lot of accurate sexual health education. Mhmm. So that's cognitively one way to start to change those thoughts. But then let's go more behaviorally.
The second route I'll take, and sometimes simultaneously, I'll take these two routes working on the cognitions and the behaviors, is teaching mindfulness. Mindfulness, for those of you who don't know what mindfulness, mindfulness is the ability to be really present in the moment with whatever you're doing. So you're present in the moment and, you're just focused on whatever sensations you're experiencing or whatever. You really just are into whatever moment you're in. A distracting thoughts come thought comes in and you don't judge it.
Mindfulness, not only is it being really present, but it's also lack of judgment. You don't judge this distracting thought. You just go like, ah, there's that distracting thought, and you let it go by. For example, let's say you're being sexual and you have a really negative thought about your body, your body image, and you're like, Ugh, my stomach looks so blech. And to be mindful, you just notice that thought.
You say, Oh, I see you thought. Hello. Goodbye. And you let it go by, and you just go right back to the sensations in your body. Sensations of warm or cool or rough or smooth.
Just get right back to sensations. Another judgmental thought comes in. Hello. Goodbye. So that's kind of how you practice mindfulness in a in a physical context.
What the research has consistently shown, and this research has predominantly been done on women, only recently has it been started with men. But the research has consistently shown is that if you learn mindfulness and then bring it into the sexual realm, it can improve your desire, your arousal, your orgasm, and even reduce sexual pain. And so oftentimes, when I'm working with individuals who just the idea of erotica, fantasy, or toys is just, like, way too out there, great. We're gonna start with mindfulness. There's a really good book called, there's a book called Better Sex Through Mindfulness, but it's the accompanying workbook.
It's the Better Sex Through Mindfulness workbook that if someone wanted to DIY, do this themselves, not see a therapist, I would say get that workbook and start to work through these mindful exercises. And it starts just with nonsexual exercises, where you're just doing scans of your body, and then you're doing scans of your body and pleasure and scans of your body with arousal. But I think that's a really great place to start that doesn't feel too advanced, where you're, doing all these things that might feel a little shocking. You're just learning to get connected with your body and tap into those sensations like arousal and pleasure. What about for people who have a lot of fear about the idea of what's right and wrong?
And also, I think a lot of people do have fear about, like, sex spiraling out of control. Like, if you do this, then that means that you're going to cheat on me. Or if you are seeking this type of sexual stimulation, that means that you are going to become a sex addict or you are going to lose control. There I think that with conservative cultural backgrounds, I think that can be really scary to say even if you're starting to open up your own concept of sexuality, like, okay. Maybe there's more here that is of value that I could explore with my own intimacy and sexuality.
But all these scary things can happen, you know, where where the idea of erotica or the idea of any sort of exploration feels very scary, not just a right or wrong, but, like, something bad is gonna happen. This is where I'd I'd start more cognitive, and we take some of those thoughts about, oh gosh, if I start to to watch erotica, then this is a gateway, and maybe I'm gonna get dependent on erotica. And we'll start to challenge. And the challenge is not like, I'm gonna challenge you. Like, it's a very therapeutic challenge, but it's a part of the challenge is asking questions like, what evidence do you have that that is true?
Totally understand that that is a message that you have learned growing up. I get it. It's a message you learned, but you're imagine you're a lawyer. What evidence do you have that that is true? And then what evidence do you have that that is false?
And so this is, in CBT, this is the way you start to challenge. Is there all an alternative explanation? That's another one of the questions. And maybe an alternative explanation is current explanation is, oh my gosh, if I do this, if I look at erotica, I'm gonna get addicted and be dependent on it. Alternative explanation is, if I look at erotica, I might really like it.
I might wanna use it more frequently, but I'll have discussions with my partner about it, and we'll navigate it. That's like an alternative way to look at it. So I would start cognitive. And then when the the client was in a place where they felt like, okay, I'm willing to maybe maybe dip my toe in the water, then I'd say, great. Start to gather data.
That is all you're doing, gathering data. So let's figure out if erotica is the topic. Is let's start with a level of erotica that feels safe to you. Maybe that's just audio erotica. Maybe that's a book.
Often those books feel a little bit safer. Mhmm. Just read a couple pages and gather some data and see how that impacted you, the thoughts you had. Let's talk to your partner about it. Just gather some data.
Okay. Now maybe read read a chapter. Let's gather some data. You're just you're dipping your toe. You're dipping your foot in.
We're gonna do this really slowly, and you're just gonna slowly start to gather some data and see how that fits with you. And it's not just how it fits with you, but see how it fits with your sexual values. You may try this out and realize this actually doesn't feel good to me, and I actually don't think this fits with my sexual values. I'm getting more clarity on what my values are. Okay.
Great. That's interesting data. We're gonna set that aside then and go explore something else. This is all gathering data. You could take it very slowly.
I appreciate that. I I think there are people who are fine with not exploring and who are very satisfied and have a healthy sexual relationship with their partners and may feel like, I don't I don't think I need to do that. But there are lots of people that kind of live in this conflict of, I feel like my sexuality and my intimacy is missing something, and yet anything that would solve that problem conflicts with with other thoughts or other teachings or other things like that. So it's helpful to kind of, I think, hear that it's okay to dip your toe in the water. And so okay not to, but that it's up to you of what you feel like you want to have as part of your life, and that there are ways to do it that that are, you know, all along the spectrum.
Right? You don't have to go to straight to the most extreme thing you could possibly explore or ever. You know? You don't ever have to get there, but that there are ways that you can explore that idea of sexuality. I have about a 100 other questions that I could ask you, but we're out of time.
I do wanna hear if you have any resources that you just wanna drop that we can share in the show notes. We'll share the workbook that you mentioned. Are there any other starting points for someone for couples who may want to kind of start exploring and then will come back and and sharing your own website? Yeah. The book that I would hands down say is the best book I have ever read on sexual health.
It is specific toward women. It was written for women, but the concepts, are relevant toward men. And if you have a partner who's a woman, you should read it. It's called come as you are. So come as you are.
There's a come as you are workbook. What I will tell couples while they're on my waiting list, they'll say, I want you to get the book. I want you to get the workbook. Read it together. Start doing the workbook together.
I think that is that is my number one recommendation. If you are a couple and you just don't have much sexual health information and education, this is a little more advanced move, but there is a book called The Guide to Getting It On. And it's a pretty thick book, but it is everything you wanted to know and did not want to know about sexual health. And it's all very accurate evidence based information. So what I will tell couples is, I want you to read it, maybe read a chapter together every week, every chapter, don't skip chapters.
Even if there's a chapter that you have absolutely no interest in, maybe there's a chapter on anal play and you're like, no, thank you. I still want you to read it. And then afterwards, you two can talk about how much you did not like that chapter and you never wanna do that. That's okay because if you're talking about it, that means you're talking about sex and you're getting more comfortable with it. So guide to getting it on, and it it's also a little bit more advanced because it has it doesn't have any actual pictures, but it has lots of like a little bit salacious illustrations, but that is a really great sexual health information resource.
And then we got Come As You Are, and then the Better Sex Through Mindfulness, not necessarily the book. Better Sex Through Mindfulness book is a lot of research, and it's not the most interesting read. The workbook is what I would recommend. Wonderful. And any other, websites?
You mentioned an app you mentioned? Oh, Dipsy is a really great app where you can have audio erotica, and you can type in what you might be interested in. It'll give you lots of short erotica stories. There is another great website called Beducated. So educated, but with a b in front of it.
And Beducated is a, it teaches you sexual skills. You watch couples sexual activities. So it's an advanced move, but it is educational erotica where you're actually going through a course and learning sexual activities and sexual skills, which a lot of couples, again, this is a skill. If we go right back to the start of this whole discussion, sex is a skill. And where do you learn that?
So beddedicated is a great place to learn that. I think you get I think you get your first week free, and then you have to pay for it. It's maybe, like, $30 a month. And maybe I'll end there because I think a lot of my other recommendations are a little more advanced. Yep.
Yep. Might not be hanging out on the podcast. Yeah. Tell us where people can work with you and where they can find you. Yes.
So they can find me, at my website, which is just my name, jordan rouleaux dot com. So that's my website. And then I also train, sex therapists and I train therapists to do sex therapy. So if you're a therapist and you're listening to this podcast, I have a company called sexualhealthsolutions.com. So it's just sexualhealthsolutions.com and I've got lots of different courses where you can learn how to do sex therapy.
That's amazing. And you're, you take clients only in Utah or you outside of Utah as well? I have a license called SciPACT. Psychologists are eligible to get this license called SciPACT, which allows them to see, clients in about 26 different states. So I can see people in Utah and in these 26 different SIPAC states.
Amazing. Well, thank you so much for coming on. You really are such a wealth of information, and it's been so interesting talking to you. So thank you for taking your time and for sharing with us. Yeah.
Well, thanks for having me. Thank you so much for tuning in to today's episode. A huge thank you to our guests for sharing their insights and time with us. We are grateful for the incredible support from our sponsors and to all of you listening. We couldn't do this without you.
If you enjoyed this episode, please consider subscribing on your favorite platform. You can find us on our website, upliftforher.com, YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you love to listen. And if you found value here today, please share this episode with someone who would benefit from it. Leave us a comment or give us a review. It really helps us reach more listeners like you.
Thank you for being part of our community. Stay tuned for our next episode. Lastly, this information is for educational purposes only and not intended to be medical advice.
